| Interview: Dennis Prager, radio host and publisher
of "Ultimate Issues" discusses his view that the issue of we humans
not hurting each other is the most important issue, and how it relates
to the O.J. Simpson case
06/30/94
SNYDER: And you seem to be a rather conservative man, but you
don't seem to have an agenda as does Mr. Limbaugh. Is--is that true,
you don't have any political agenda?
Mr. PRAGER: It is--it is absolutely true. And this will sound
so corny that I am almost afraid to say it publicly. I am preoccupied
with one issue and that is good and evil--that people not hurt each
other. Everything else in life is secondary. If people treated each
other decently, we would live in heaven. The world would be heavenly.
SNYDER: Mm-hmm.
Mr. PRAGER: And it is, to me, one of the great riddles of life
that goodness is not the preoccupation of everybody, since everybody
wants to be treated good and yet it isn't. People have a 1,000 other
agendas. Good is not the big one.
...
Mr. PRAGER: ...Jimmy Breslin in an--in an editorial had a very
good point on this and he said, `This is the best-known American
to be accused of murder in the history of the United States.' And
then I said, `Hey, yeah. Well, then it makes sense. It makes sense
the preoccupation.'
SNYDER: Except to think about that quote and then to think of
another one that I saw in Time magazine last week when they had
the cover picture. The--the supposed--well, the doctored picture
of O.J.--the enhanced picture, which, by the way, I thought flattered
him more than--than dis--disflattered him. But here in the lead
paragraph is--is a--Dennis--the quote, O.J. Simpson, quote, `the
most notorious, double-murder defendant in the history of the world'--period.
Shouldn't we see a footnote that documents that somewhere?
Mr. PRAGER: Well, the world...
SNYDER: I mean...
Mr. PRAGER: ...that's a large statement of the world.
SNYDER: In history--in history.
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah.
SNYDER: That goes back to Adam and Eve, doesn't it?
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah.
SNYDER: I mean, how--how about Cain? Didn't he do a couple of
bad ones?
Mr. PRAGER: Where was that in Time?
SNYDER: It was in Time magazine.
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah, but there was no mag--there was no coverage
at the time because the--only Abel existed.
SNYDER: Well, that--only he knew, right?
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah. Exactly.
SNYDER: Yeah.
Mr. PRAGER: So, it's hard to know who would cover--who would put
him on the cover? And do you know who called me today, talking about
that cover of Time?
SNYDER: I have--I have no idea?
Mr. PRAGER: Oh, it was a rhetorical question.
SNYDER: One that need not be answered.
Mr. PRAGER: That's correct. Thank you.
SNYDER: BS calls it.
Mr. PRAGER: The sister lives in Simi Valley here in Southern California--the
sister of the guy who did the Time cover and she was saying you
don't know how much my brother's being accused of racism. And--and
it saddened me--and she said, you--my brother works with black artists
all the time so--I mean, he doesn't have a racist bone in his body.
But he darkened O.J. Simpson...
SNYDER: Yeah.
Mr. PRAGER: ...and now the guy is being smeared as a racist. And
it's a fascinating thing. You don't get that, you know, the sister
of somebody, you know?
SNYDER: Sure. Right. Right.
Mr. PRAGER: Having the effects of that sort of thing. But I will
say this, I said to her, that's awful but doctoring a photo should
never be done. That's the last thing people believe is real and
now that is a photo...
SNYDER: That's correct.
Mr. PRAGER: That's not right. Newsday had Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya
Harding on the cover photo totally doctored. It was a digital photo.
They had--they weren't on the same ice.
SNYDER: No, that's not cor--that's not--that's not allowable.
That's not ethical.
Mr. PRAGER: That's right.
SNYDER: OK. Now we'll talk about ethics here. However, I have
talked with the picture editor of Life magazine whose business it
is to select pictures and she believes strongly in the integrity
of a photograph and that you are not allowed...
Mr. PRAGER: Right.
SNYDER: ...to alter that photograph. This photograph, if you place
them side by side, the photograph wasn't altered. His hue was deeper.
The--the shadow around him was darker, but the basic integrity of
the picture was... 50+2 Mr. PRAGER: No, I understand, but...
SNYDER: ...truly not viably.
Mr. PRAGER: ...even the hue and stuff.
SNYDER: Yeah.
Mr. PRAGER: Look, I think the--the...
SNYDER: Let's not...
Mr. PRAGER: ...not to crack a pun, but the hue and cry is too
great over this. You know, people are picking up, I think, truly
secondary issues. The fact is this is a major tragedy. It is.
SNYDER: I wanted you to speak here--you know, you talk often about
good and evil on your program...
Mr. PRAGER: Mm-hmm.
SNYDER: ...and we are talking about something that has happened
here that is truly evil.
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah.
SNYDER: This is not something to celebrate.
Mr. PRAGER: That's right. It's like somebody called me up and
said, `You know, I'm an O.J. fan.' And I go, `OK, I'm a Nicole fan.'
I mean--well, I'm the kids' fan. I'm a Ron Goldman fan. You know,
what the problem is? It's that when we know someone or think we
know someone--because in the media it's by and large you think you
know...
SNYDER: Yes, sir.
Mr. PRAGER: ...someone. Then all of a sudden you get sympathetic.
It's like the criminal in a movie. Who do you root for--the criminal?
SNYDER: No.
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah. No, no--in the movie, you do.
SNYDER: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Mr. PRAGER: Right. You end up rooting for the criminal because
he--he's the focus of the film. The cops are not real. That's what
has happened here. O.J. is real. Ron Goldman's a name. Nicole Simpson's
a name. The children are names and this is what happens. People
let their feelings, not their values dominate their reaction.
SNYDER: And so because they don't know Nicole...
Mr. PRAGER: Right.
SNYDER: They don't know the kids, they don't know Goldman...
Mr. PRAGER: They're abstractions.
SNYDER: But--but--and here is the other thing you mentioned. Think
about the--the simplicity of the statement, Dennis, `I'm an O.J.
fan.' That's OK. You can be an O.J. fan as...
Mr. PRAGER: That's right.
SNYDER: ...as a member of the Buffalo Bills or the USC Heisman
Trophy winner to be an O.J.--there's nothing wrong with that and
you can want O.J.
Mr. PRAGER: No, or even as a sportscaster.
SNYDER: And you can be an O.J. fan and say, `Jeez, I hope he's
not'--that's OK to say, too...
Mr. PRAGER: Mm-hmm.
SNYDER: ...but let's not forget that a monstrous evil has been
committed here.
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah. I--I know.
SNYDER: And--and somehow--how--how will justice be served here?
I mean...
Mr. PRAGER: Well, don't get me started because I have done shows...
SNYDER: I'm going to get you started, but let me do a commercial.
You know what steams me? If--you're going to do your own TV show,
aren't you?
Mr. PRAGER: Yes.
SNYDER: See, and then he'll never come on as a guest anymore because
he'll have his own te--you know, all these radio...
Mr. PRAGER: Oh, no. I will. I'm telling you right now.
SNYDER: Oh, OK. OK. Because most radio guys, they come on because
they want to be on TV. But then when they get their own TV shows...
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah.
SNYDER: ...they don't come on anymore, you know?
Mr. PRAGER: No, no, no. We already shook.
SNYDER: OK. All right. Deal. Back with Dennis Prager and your
phone calls after these messages.
(Theme music)
(Announcements)
Mr. PRAGER: You're so right.
SNYDER: Dennis Prager saying, `I'm so right. I'm so right.'
Here is Roseanne joining us from the wilds of Connecticut.
Hi, Roseanne. It's Tom. How you be?
ROSEANNE (Caller): Hi. I'm fine. How are you?
SNYDER: I'm well, thanks. Say hi to Dennis Prager . He's right
here.
ROSEANNE: Hi, Dennis.
Mr. PRAGER: Hi, Roseanne.
SNYDER: You hear Dennis on WABC?
ROSEANNE: Sometimes.
SNYDER: Well, Roseanne, sometimes...
Mr. PRAGER: Only sometimes or are you being polite? Sometimes--sometimes
that's worse. It's much better to say I didn't know he was on.
SNYDER: Sometimes--sometimes does not work here. Anyway.
Mr. PRAGER: Sometimes is the worse possible answer.
SNYDER: Go ahead--go ahead, Roseanne.
ROSEANNE: OK. I just had a comment about Ms. Clark and really,
the whole DA's office. I think it was totally unprofessional of
them. After O.J.'s arraignment at the press conference she got up
there and said that he was the sole murderer. There was no mention
of accused or suspected and I just wanted to know how far you think
that they should go with the innocent until proven guilty issue?
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah. Well, it seems to be--I didn't happen to hear
that, but trusting that that's what she said, remember his lawyers
are saying, he's innocent, not we think so or--or we tend to think
so. That is the job. The prosecutor declares what the prosecutor
believes; the defense attorney declares what the defense attorney
believes.
ROSEANNE: Oh.
Mr. PRAGER: I'm--it--it--and that's--that's natural.
ROSEANNE: Mm-hmm. I think...
Mr. PRAGER: OK?
ROSEANNE: I thought it was unprofessional. I don't know.
Mr. PRAGER: I don't know what the professional ethic on this is,
you know.
SNYDER: Well, I--I mean, would you have liked it better, Roseanne,
if she had, for example, said, by the way, even though we have O.J.
Simpson here in this hearing, we are considering some other suspects.
I mean, to--to me that would have been equally unprofessional.
Mr. PRAGER: Well, it would have been a lie. They're not.
SNYDER: Yeah. Yeah. And--and, I mean, I think she was stating
that just as a matter of fact.
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah, I mean--and, you know, you see, they're almost
damned if they do; damned if they don't.
SNYDER: Yeah.
Mr. PRAGER: Because if she said--what if she's supposed to say,
in effect, gee, you know, it--it looks 70-30 like we got our guy,
you know. What do you say?
SNYDER: By the way, Roseanne, the great one I found in all this
was that the LAPD lost O.J. Simpson. You know what I mean? We're
not talking about Eddie the caddy. We're talking O.J.--like, fellas,
you know, the guy that did the Hertz rent-a-car walk through in
the airport--that's the guy we're looking for.
Mr. PRAGER: Yes. Yes. Actually, I felt bad for the LAPD then.
LA--it was the perfect situation. If the LAPD gets him, really guards
him, then they're either accused of racism.
SNYDER: Right.
Mr. PRAGER: If they don't guard him, then they're accused of laxity.
SNYDER: Right. So now it's laxity.
Mr. PRAGER: Yeah.
SNYDER: And if they'd been on him, the other--yeah. It's called
lose-lose.
Mr. PRAGER: That's correct.
SNYDER: Roseanne, thanks for calling.
ROSEANNE: Thank you.
SNYDER: Let me ask you here about something we cherish in this
country called the presumption of innocence. As I understand it,
and--and if I'm wrong you'll correct me, counselor. If I'm sworn
as a juror in a case, I must presume that that defendant is innocent
until proven guilty by the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Mr. PRAGER: Yes, if you're a sworn juror, but the rest...
SNYDER: But if I'm a citizen of this country...
Mr. PRAGER: But the rest of the citizen--exactly. You're allowed
to read...
SNYDER: I don't have to presume he's innocent just because I live
in--it's not a constitutional guarantee.
Mr. PRAGER: That is correct. That is correct and that is a common
misconception. I am allowed to use common sense alone.
SNYDER: Yes.
Mr. PRAGER: I cannot say the man has been convicted until he's
convicted.
SNYDER: Right.
Mr. PRAGER: But I can say, based on my common sense and the reading
that I have done, I make the following conclusion. If the court
sees it other way--in another way, then it sees it in another way.
SNYDER: That is right.
Mr. PRAGER: We do not have to make that presumption.
SNYDER: Let me get you started here on justice being served in
this case. You know, whatever happens, O.J. Simpson is going to
be a pauper when this thing is over. The--the--the legal fees here
are going to go into--into the millions...
Mr. PRAGER: Oh, yeah.
SNYDER: ...and millions and millions of dollars.
Mr. PRAGER: Mm-hmm.
SNYDER: I mean, his children will have to work at some point.
Mr. PRAGER: Mm-hmm.
SNYDER: And had he--would he not--had he not been able to pay
for this kind of legal defense, would he receive the same justice,
had he...
Mr. PRAGER: No, he wouldn't, and by the way, this is a very important
issue because it gives the lie to a very common misconception that
blacks are served worse in the criminal justice system than whites.
That is not the case. The case is that the poor are served worse
than the rich. That's being taught--that is the distinction. But
the distinction is not that the poor get bad justice. It's that
the rich get unfair justice by getting acquitted more easily. The
poor do get served well because they get punished when they do something.
But rich don't always get punished when they do something.
SNYDER: Right.
Mr. PRAGER: This is the problem and I'll tell you, if they throw
out the stuff because the--the detectives showed up, saw evidence
and took it six hours before a--a warrant for search was issued.
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