I interviewed Croatian intellectual Tom Sunic for 80 minutes via Skype.
I will appear in a dialogue with Dr. Sunic in three weeks:
Sunday, September 21st, at JEM Beverly Hills Community Center, 9930 Santa Monica Boulevard, Conference Room Second Floor (possible relocation to Basketball Court depending on attendance) at 3:00 p.m., panel appearance with Luke Ford (email@example.com) and others TBA, call Charles Edward Lincoln, III at 504-408-5492 or e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org.
Dr. Sunic’s title: “1400 Years of Islamic Imperialism: Real or Surreal Menaces to Europe from the Mediaeval Caliphates, to the Ottomans at the Gates of Vienna, to the New Islamic Terror and ‘Voluntary’ Invasion-Repopulation of Europe.”
In a video discussion above, Andrew Fraser tells Tom Sunic: “A hundred years ago, my people [WASPs] were standing astride the world like a colossus. Today Anglo-Saxons have degenerated into an invisible race of wimpy WASPs who have degenerated into the quintessential liberals — people who won’t take their own side in a fight.”
Tom: “This is a book [The WASP Question: An Essay on the Biocultural Evolution, Present Predicament, and Future Prospects of the Invisible Race] for graduate students.”
Andrew: “We’re victims of our own success. We created the defining institutions of the modern world — the state and the corporation and they invested their entire identity in those states. Anglo-Saxons in America become Americans. Anglo-Saxons in Britain becomes British. Anglo-Saxons in Australia become Australians and so. And then, towards the second half of the 20th Century, the state and the corporate sector betrays them. The state no longer defines itself as the institutional expression of Anglo-Saxon identity and an American or Australian or Britain is now anybody from anywhere who holds the passport issued from that state and it leaves WASPs bereft of any coherent collective identity.”
“We developed these powerful prosperous states attracting millions of people from the third world and all of whom can claim to be just as Australian or English as the founding race of those countries.”
“I see the origins of civic nationalism in the Anglo-Saxon era. When the Anglo-Saxon tribes came from Germany to Britain, they disrupted their kinship networks and the mechanism that replaced it is covenant and covenant plays an incredibly important role in the history of the Anglo-Saxon peoples. You can find its origins 1500 years ago. The book is an attempt to trace the bio-cultural history of that idea.”
“Americans develop a new identity, based not on their ethnicity or faith but their allegiance to the new political order, which immediately becomes open to all white people. The identity becomes flattened from British, an identity that has spiritual depth and history, [to] whiteness, which is a totally negative identity. It just means you are not black.”
Tom Sunic: “The Founding Fathers [of the United States] set up the proposition state.”
Andrew: “Absolutely. And they ethnically cleansed all of those English colonists who wanted to retain their allegiance to thrown and altar. I come from a part of Canada that was settled by loyalists driven out of the new American republic.”
“The problem [of WASPs] becomes acute in America. Harold Cruse wrote The Crisis of the Negro Intellectual [in 1967]. His beef with the WASPs was that they always wanted to lie to themselves about who and what they were. They wanted to insist that we were all just Americans and he insisted that no we’re not. America is a nation of nations. You’ve got the negros, the Jews and the Anglo-Saxons and until each of those groups recognizes what is and sets about on the task of creating a coherent ethno-nationalism, nothing is going to work and of course the Jews do exactly what he thought they ought to do but American WASPs simply refuse to recognize that they are first and foremost people of Anglo-Saxon ancestry who have more in common with people of Anglo-Saxon ancestry in other countries such as Canada, England and Australia than they do with, let’s say, American negros and American Jews. One of the things that always amazes me about the United States is that they pay zero attention to north of the 49th parallel, there are about 20 million Anglo-Saxons.”
Tom: “Whites, specifically the WASPs, are the first ones to dish out humanitarian money to all corners of the world including military humanitarian engagement of American troops but they are the last ones to help when their own people need help, such as patrolling the Rio Grande border.”
Tom: “WASPs have been much more prone to accepting Semitic religion from the Old Testament than other Christian peoples.”
Andrew: “Christian Zionism is not so much an expression of orthodox Christianity as an expression of American civil religion. That is an understanding of Christianity that is on the verge of self-destruction.”
“The English were the most successful modernizers and what’s the basis of modernity in Europe? The split between the secular and the spiritual realms. That has its origins in the papal revolution of the 11th Century… In England, [that split] becomes exploited to the hilt. England becomes the most secular society in Europe. The Puritans are the most secular element in that secular society. Protestantism becomes a funny thing.Religion has a secular utility, but once secular utility becomes a religion…”
“Christian Zionism, like most secular leftist movements, is always looking to the future as the solution to all of our problems.”
“Orthodox Christianity was rooted in an importance of families and nations.”
“You think of the leaders of white nationalism and immigration restriction in the United States — the late Sam Francis, Jared Taylor, [Greg Johnson]. These are all WASPs but they do not want to identify themselves as WASPs much less reconstitute their people as a distinct ethno-nation. They’re wedded to the American civil religion. Their strategy is focused on waiting for political power through constitutional means.”
“Speaking to white Anglo-Saxon Protestants in particular, I would say, think of yourself as a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. Try to address the kind of spiritual emptiness that is now associated with that identity. Instead of trying to run political campaigns and to win political power and take back the state and create a white republic and whatever, WASPs need to think tribally. It would be much more productive and much more relevant to try to take back the Anglican church for starters rather than to win a majority in Congress. If the Anglican church could be wrested back from the neo-communists who control it now, you would have the institution that created the English nation could reconstitute a modern federation of Anglo-Saxon tribes that spans the globe.”
“The problem we face is essentially spiritual. The essence of a race must be its spiritual identity. If there’s no sense of greatness, no sense of a challenge that we’ve got to overcome this degeneration into mere materialism, we’re finished.”
“Anglo-Saxons made a religion of secular utility. Look where it’s got us. Materially, we’re stupendously successful. Spiritually, we’re pushovers. We’re being invaded and we can’t even see it. We have no sense of the challenge we’re facing to restore ourselves to our former status as a great people and if a people doesn’t want to be great, why do they exist?”
Tom: “Remember in the 19th Century in the antebellum South, the whites were segregated and it never crossed their mind to breed with indianss or Mexicans. Compare with the Spanish conquistadors, who were forced by the Spanish Catholic church to intermarry with the Indian and mestizo ladies. Now we have the reverse situation. The whites in Mexico and South America are keen on the remnants of their racial roots while up north, the kids of WASPs are the cheerleaders for the mongrelization, the globalization of the world.”
Andrew: “The problem is the Orthodox abandonment of the Christian doctrine of nations. When Christ gave his disciples the commission to baptize the nations, that suggests to me that the nations are the basic unit of Christendom. And who destroyed that principle of Orthodox Christianity? The papacy. By claiming this spiritual monopoly for this universal church, it despiritualized each of the European nations. Each European state tried to inject their own secular version of spiritualism into it, but that failed. We need to get back to that Orthodox doctrine of nations because the only way we can get in touch with the divine is by loving our family and beyond that in concentric circles to the nation. We can’t go beyond that.”
“The Serbian church invests the nation [of Serbia] with a spirit of sanctity.”
Tom: “And of race. The Serbian church endorses the racial purity of the Serbian people. The Catholic church in Croatia is more universalistic.”
Andrew: “My son has a Russian girlfriend.”
Tom: “That’s good news.”
Andrew: “I wish he had an Anglo-Saxon girlfriend. Why? Because WASPs need to develop a tribal sense of identity, a sense of who they are and where they came from and where they’re going and a notion of clear boundaries between us and other groups, which you may or may not ally yourself with, but unless you have a strong sense of the value of your own ethno-cultural identity, I can’t see how you are ever going to get any unity among whites who the only thing they have in common is that they’re not non-whites. That is not the basis for a spiritual identity. The Anglican church I go to would never marry somebody who wanted to marry a non-Christian, but they have no compunction about marrying Anglo-Saxons to Russians and Vietnamese or Chinese as long as those others are Christian. We need an Anglican church that is dedicated to reconstituting Anglo-Saxon tribes.”
“The one group you won’t find engaging in tribal warfare is WASPs.”
“This Anglo-American style of civic nationalism achieved a hegemonic position within the West, and delegitimated any coherent ethnic identity. Look at what happened to Serbia when it tried to be Serbian. The entire Western world puts its iron heel on Serbia. You are never going to get the Germans to revive as a people by getting them to identify as whites rather than Germans.”
Andrew Fraser writes:
The American nation-state is a secular parody of the church. Unlike the early modern Church of England, moreover, America’s established religion resolutely refuses to incarnate the spirit of a particular people, least of all, the descendants of British colonists—the long-since forgotten “founding race” of the “first new nation.” The newly independent Constitutional Republic set out deliberately to create a nation unlike any other known to man. It used as its raw material not just the core population group in British North America, namely people of predominantly English ancestry, but any White person who made his way to the New World.
The spiritual core of America’s constitutional faith is a cosmopolitan conception of revolutionary universalism which aims to transcend and include any and all of the national and religious particularities of the Old World. American Anglo-Saxon Protestants readily sacrificed their ancestral ethnoreligious identity on the altar of the new republican religion. Yet, a socially significant minority of “Tories” refused allegiance to an artificial body politic subject to the capricious rule of good King Democracy. They were denounced by rebel Whigs as “sectarians” for their stubborn loyalty to throne and altar, stripped of their property, and driven in their tens of thousands out of the country.
Abigail Adams, wife of a future President, watched the first great batch of Tory exiles depart from Boston harbour. She “reported it as the largest fleet ever seen in America. Upward of one hundred and seventy sail could be counted; they looked like a forest.” Even after the American Republic made peace with Great Britain, one historian notes that triumphant Whigs insisted that no Tory should “find a resting place in the United States; and in nearly every state they were disfranchised, while in many localities they were tarred and feathered, driven from town and warned never to return” (see here, p. 595).
Two hundred years later, the deracinated WASP descendants of those eighteenth century American rebels still occupy the front pew in America’s civil religion. Some reject the term WASP as a snide and spiteful acronym popularised sometime in the Fifties by Jews and other ethnic groups harbouring grievances against the founding stock of White America. But perhaps the pejorative connotation of the term is deserved. Perhaps the Constitutional Republic founded by the largely Anglo-Saxon Protestant colonial subjects of the British Crown was born in sin. There were few Jews or Catholics present when the founding fathers severed the bonds of blood and faith between Americans and their kith and kin across the Atlantic. The Declaration of Independence confirmed that the American Adam had been seduced by the promise of unmatched wealth and endless prosperity, the worldly power and everlasting glory sure to follow the peopling of a vast continental empire.
The term WASP is indeed derogatory and abusive; but those who bear that label must accept that they deserve much of the contempt heaped upon them by other racial, religious, and ethnic groups. Hopelessly at odds with themselves, WASPs have become the invisible race. Even in their own eyes, WASPs now constitute little more than a demographic abstraction altogether devoid of the soul and the substance of a serious people. Back in the Sixties; Time magazine observed that their collective identity was merely an upmarket “lifestyle choice” available to “Waspirants” of all colors and creeds.
American WASPs desperately need to regenerate a collective spirit of in-group solidarity. WASPs must learn to play the postmodern game of identity politics. Only through a palingenetic process of spiritual regeneration will weakling WASPs be reborn as Anglo-Saxon Christian soldiers. In the culture wars to come, their mission will be to expose the false religion on the march, most recently, under the banner of the Tea Party movement.